I am not doxxing myself because the paranoia will likely continue in such a scenario.
And what’s next? Suspecting US citizens of being foreign agents and then sicking the FBI on them?
Unlike you, I’m not going to be cheerleading the return of McCarthyism.
This will end up releasing private info in some form, right?
It’s likely in everybody’s best interest that this is a wild success. Not only will game developers be incentivized to actually optimize their games for reasonable setups; this will unseat Nvidia’s monopoly over gamers with their ridiculously overpriced graphics cards and also Microsoft’s monopoly of a gamer’s operating system.
Nvidia’s partnership with Palantir is incredibly concerning and any blow to Nvidia is a welcome one. Encourage these developments and hype this all up.
I just don’t think it’ll ever be anything close to 99% effective given that this is a website. I explained why previously.
Thanks for engaging though - I do understand and appreciate the necessity of bot prevention and I’ll be sure to keep an eye out as a user.
As another user suggested to me in the past, there could be government-run social media that requires ID at sign-up. Maybe a service like that would appeal to you if our government (apologies if you aren’t US-based) wasn’t labeling certain speech as terrorism.
I trust instance owners and software developers to sort this out in a privacy-respecting way. If a specific instance breaks my trust, I might find it necessary to block it.
I don’t support violations of privacy and I appreciate some level of pseudonymity and anonymity in social media.
Who is going to vet the vetters? What if they become compromised or were compromised from the beginning? What recourse is there for users if there are data breaches?
If there was an actor behind a handful of accounts that are mostly run by LLMs (which mimic human input and interaction) it’d be easily viable for state-level or professional actors to pull such an operation off at scale and successfully manipulate a small platform like the fediverse - especially with some level of manual input or confirmation. Even taking believable selfies of real people that fit the profile is possible and can be anticipated if the actor or the organization behind them are resourceful.
I’m not entirely against instance-level detection that attempts to understand user patterns and prevent or flag abuse to mods and admins, but I do believe that humanized input and interaction can already be effectively emulated and will only advance as time passes.
I believe that increased scrutiny of users in a centralized manner is a privacy violation. I picked my instance intentionally and I give some level of trust to the instance owners, but I wouldn’t consent to them (or the software they choose to use) handing over my PII or usage patterns to a third-party group that suspects me (even through purely automated mechanisms). I would discontinue using the service in such a scenario.
To support my point that bot detection is mostly futile on the fediverse, I’d like to draw your attention to a parallel to this situation in gaming with humanized aimbots - which are already incredibly viable and are implemented in a variety of ways.
There are usually actual human actors guiding input to some degree, but the aimbot/etc. is designed to mimic human input to achieve believable results. I believe this technology could still advance quite a bit and there are new methods popping up as every day passes.
The key difference between gaming and the fediverse, is that the fediverse is not software running on our computers at the kernel-level (as with most anti-cheat) - it’s a website running in a browser.
Ultimately, I feel it boils down to just blocking instances that you disagree with the operation of to curate your experience - which is already available on Lemmy.
I disagree with the notion that we need a centralized list or that such a list is desirable. Again - I trust instances to sort this out.
As LLMs and deepfaking technology advance, the likely result will be completely undetectable bots that effectively mimic human behavior, even with advanced and potentially automated defenses.
See: https://theintercept.com/2024/10/17/pentagon-ai-deepfake-internet-users/
I don’t know about you, but I wouldn’t want to have to e.g. take a selfie in a specific way to be able to use the fediverse and have the ability to reach a broad audience - just because I am hypothetically suspected. Such a list will also likely chill participation, as an unintended effect.
None of that data proves anything besides potentially identifying bots, as you suggest.
It’s just an exercise in group paranoia - and would likely be abused by actual state/professional actors attempting to silence users/create bubbles.
Personally, I trust that the mods and admins will sort the bots/vote manipulation out. As for the bad actors, we can counter their propaganda with our good faith participation and our efforts to lead others to the truth.
You’re suggesting a public blacklist with thorough vetting, I just thought it’d be fair for you to step forward in such a hypothetical scenario. But you’re right, it’s not feasible - nobody can definitively prove that they are an independent actor.
Would you volunteer to be vetted first?
Okay, now split into at least 4 different companies and compete with each other - if we want the illusion of a free market and competition to exist in the minds of those living under capitalism.
It would be wise to make openly manipulating social media systematically (with or without AI) illegal, immediately.
Social media is for real people to freely engage and share their viewpoints, not for bot farms and other forms of organized astroturfing to shape opinion by appearing as independently-affiliated real people.
Discourse is an incredibly valuable tool for humanity, and we can’t let this be taken away from us - especially by those making a killing off of it or those paying for the privilege.
Are you personally invested in the AI/LLM space? I’m wondering why you chose to engage with very few of my arguments. Is your account a troll account? If you’re not trolling: re-read. I will not engage further until you adequately address my points.
I was pretty clear: there is no intelligence. AGI is an absolute pipe dream and it will also be a far cry from actual intelligence if you look into it. Hallucinations won’t be fixed unless the technology evolves - adding more GPU power won’t be able to fix it.
The copyright theft is an extreme issue, regardless your hand-waving of it. Copyright law reform is not perceivably on the table. Major companies are caught red-handed stealing and these companies have no intention of compensating the rights-holders they stole from.
The technology (at least with current methodologies) is flawed: that’s why people are warning of the bubble bursting. We can’t properly scale LLMs on our current grid in the same capacity as China. Our technologies are also incredibly energy-intensive compared to their technologies.
There is no intelligence, the hallucinations are likely fundamental, the cases of people being given dangerous or harmful advice are rising, human AI psychosis is a real concern, the sycophancy/bias confirmation is still present, and major actors in the AI space are existentially afraid of any form of regulation of the technology/industry (which does not signal confidence).
Also, it’s critical to factor in the whole copyright issue with training data… one domino is all it takes to collapse the whole thing.
Meta/OpenAI openly pirating everything they can to train their LLMs is a good example of how data hungry these AI/etc. companies are.
Is it plausible that companies request that Reddit narrows down data e.g. by demographic, geographic location, or likelihood of being a real person and request that data for purchase? Sure, but the LLMs seemingly require all data that exists that these companies can get their hands on - I highly doubt with the scale of data being consumed (and data theft being committed) that the big players care too much about Reddit data being tainted. If anything, it might even be desirable to them.
Reddit is presumably the only party with the ability to determine which data/interaction is truly legitimate or isn’t.
I have a mostly neutral opinion on AI/LLMs, but I have a negative assessment of the companies driving it unsustainably. They are able to pay big money because AI is where money is flowing. When these actors crash the economy with their hubris, please write back to me.
If you can land me a gig engaging with back end data from Reddit in a neutral capacity, it’d likely be pretty easy for a layman like me to confirm that it’s largely noise. The AI companies buying data are getting scammed and you are free to remain neutral or plainly disagree with my assessment in the absence of concrete data that is publicly obtainable.
No company is immune to bots and inorganic engagement, least of all Reddit with the strategies employed.
It’s noise, a very large part of it. Reddit is financially motivated to make the data appear as if it is signal. It isn’t - they have taken extremely minimal steps to ensure actual human participation.
This doesn’t matter to AI companies, but it only warps that technology more and more. AI is a sinking ship with current methodologies. Reddit will die when the AI bubble bursts and those involved with Reddit already cashed out enough to be filthy rich.
Are you somebody invested financially in Reddit? Genuine question.
Those niche subreddits can also have their moments, too. Maybe it’s not bots, but there are plenty of shills that have been caught in various niche subreddits I’ve frequented over the years (thanks to unpaid moderators).
It’s absolutely shameful that we still have lead pipes in 2026.