Is your argument that Chinese government is not using technology to restrict freedoms?

How is that being upvoted

I would say that decades of western Hollywood has primed the population to mistrust any new technology and only see potential dystopian ends in exchange for entertainment. Combined with China spreading propaganda to encourage those views in western nations. Sites like lemmy and Facebook are heavily used as generators to spread mistrust.

Right but so are people. This was all inevitable from the start. Much worse stuff is coming. People should have been embracing methods to avoid this stuff decades ago. I’m not just talking about using a fucking ad blocker. There needed to be measures to fuck with data collection. Become hostile to any site’s or content creators looking to sell viewers anything. Run applications that could feed junk data back to sites.

Had people started earlier they wouldn’t be facing the giant industry that grew out of a digital spaces that welcomed the things that eventually grew into this data collection beast we all knew were coming.

Yea it’s unfortunate the Republicans are in power. They would have done something about this.

Any new technology instantly gets turned into some new boogeyman instead of being embraced. Works out great for China when western people become luddite at a very critical window of opportunity from emerging technology. You’d almost think China has a strong ability to flood western sites with propaganda.

I’m going to offer my call to action that also gets shot down often but I want people to consider it honestly. I know it sounds crazy. It’s not fully fleshed out. But I believe efforts need to be more focused online. It is anonymous. They can’t beat your head in. The authoritarians invest heavily in it. The weakness in their efforts is that the thing they need to invest in can easily be leveraged by us to also spread an idea just like a protest. Except with so much less effort and risk.

What I want people to consider honestly is that I think the proof that this is where we need to focus is that the powers that be are actually trying to dismantle our ability to do this before we wise up to it. This is why they’re trying to introduce digital id’s. It’ll let them be able to identify leaders and voices online who organize and censor them. Right now they cannot do that easily. But they know if those 700 million people that showed up in the streets would instead show up online, their bots, propaganda and efforts would be crushed. You can control the narrative and flip it all back on them. I think we have wrongly been telling people to abandon all the social media we can. To block everyone. To ignore it all. I think that is contributing to all our countries sliding towards the right. We gave them all red carpet access to the eyes and ears of most people. Instead we should encourage each other to connect online. Take control of the platforms again and only then consider going back to the streets when the narrative can be controlled and messages spread.

My issue is this clearly doesn’t work. You’re being mislead that this works. You had 700 million people out there and nothing happened.

But 700 million people used in new and strategic ways can move mountains. Literally. But instead of moving mountains, you’re just in a street for a day.

Think about this. Protesting isn’t new. It’s occurred since the 1900s as a way to force government and the rich to bend to our will through collective action.

Do you people think that the rich and powerful haven’t solved this problem yet? Just think about it for even 10 minutes. It makes no sense that this type of collective action could ever work in today’s world like it has in the past. Say what you like about authoritarians, but they do coordinate and plan. Just look at all the events they attend with each other. It’s not just for drinks and cocktails. They use their resources to prevent us from taking their power away. They have created thick manuals for this very specific form of soft fleshy crowd. The powers that be have paid for the smartest Ivy league quants to think of strategy and tactics like an NFL coach does when reviewing games. They’re so ahead of us on this. The rich control the media. The same media that many of us decided is not important to use anymore or maintain connections on. The media they have heavily invested in. Turns out that this media is needed. If we don’t have a presence on social media then we cannot share our efforts. Without that media, the authoritarians can make this effort into anything they want.

If i was a rich guy I’d love these protests because it gives me an opportunity to arrest and financial bankrupt any of the leaders. So when I see that people are getting angry and there is this potential energy that could erupt against my class, then I can use the media to plan these things. When you all show up, the police can identify the leaders and arrest and charge them after kicking in their heads. The rest go home after 24 hrs. With the pressure now released, there will be another year before I need to rinse and repeat.

Compare this to say the clownvoy. They were connected to the police. The tow truck drivers that would be needed to remove trucks after an arrest were in support of them. They made it family fun with bbq and trampolines and bouncy castles and hot tubs because do you think police want to deal with any of that after they clear it all out. Every part of the clownvoy was set up to mess with the playbook that Authoritarians use to disrupt protests. That is what is lacking on the left. But there are leaders in the left who seem hell bent on maintaining status quo. But people are waking up slowly. The problem with doing these things slow is it gives the Authorities time to adapt. There needs to be serious critical honesty reflection on the left towards how badly these protests have damaged and harmed progress. Digging in is only going to keep the status quo which right now is causing huge losses day by day.

Right after I posted I saw this exemple of media being used in the way I described. My Facebook is getting filled with the posts rapidly. Take those same 700 million people and just image what you could do online with them.

It’s evidence that it works. That the missing piece is the crowd source. You said it’s impossible and magical. That is wrong. A problem is the datasets are from before the APIs were locked down. It’s hard to get new data. New methods are needed.

Dataset is too technical for what I’m saying. But it’s still important here. Communities should be built to combat bots, not ignore the problem. There are ways to identify activity and observe and even interfere to the point that it either costs them too much to keep up or makes them ineffective. But there needs to be the community to build that awareness. Instead it seems like the people that are disadvantaged by these networks and bots also have this mentality to ignore and avoid it all.

https://www.gudea.ai/

You can’t just magically call everything magical in an attempt to discredit and expect anyone thing you’re anybody but dishonest. I’m not spending the evening attempting to keep you on track when you can’t be bothered to read and instead you’re just looking for bullshit arguments and at worst attempting to discredit for whatever personal reason you have.

No it doesn’t. That’s not it. And this is how i know you’re just a terminally online individual arguing out of instinct rather than common sense. Il not be commenting further.

But to my point. Crowd sourcing these things works. It’s a missed opportunity in these early days to be passive and more concerned with bean posts.

Hey,

What do you think crowd sourcing means. Like what is your definition in relation to building whatever it is you’re describing. How did you get there?

That’s not the point. There is no issue with random people using LLM to craft their messages. The issue is using a network of bots to promote the latest marvel movie. Draw attention to the latest political blunder. Or just groups trying to push people further to the edges politically until nothing works.

Look at this fucking guy. Likely not a bot. But is an example of someone who is posting pattern is suspicious. It needs to be studied. That’s something we can’t do. But we can collect and analyze in a way that i think people can get into. I think using the internet and sites like lemmy for this is way more effective any most stuff people are trying to do. This he what the internet was made for and the only people not using it for this seems to be leftist groups.

Any verification is wrong. Like everything in life, it will only impose a restriction on people who don’t have the ability to circumvent it at best. The only reason this would go forward is if it can be used against those people somehow. Data collection. Censorship.

Need to go the other way. Lean in not away. Look at why bots exist. Find ways to jam that system up. Like if it’s a bot trying to promote a new movie. Every comment should be shitting on that movie. If it’s a bot in November trying to post the latest drop ship night light star projector on r/coolstufftotallynotjustads well I’m pretty sure my cousin bought that lamp and was the reason his house burned down. For a couple years let’s fuck it all up. Make the internet inhospitable to politics, business, advertisers. If it’s some racist Facebook group, they pay ads to promote their bot group, so post it here on lemmy and report spam the group since they use bots to moderate. Chase them the fuck out. If they try to stop us it’ll cost them millions and us nothing to find new ways. Their option is to either restrict us to the point their platforms suck or they have to increase the number of bots costing them more and more and more until it’s not worth it. Go to fucking war with them and take the internet back instead of going the route of giving DNA samples to some 3rd party owned by meta just to look at porn.

I don’t know. I’m just done with it all. I like to image a world 20 years ago where we all saw the internet moving towards corporate interest and we chased them out. Instead they now create a problem and sell the solution and we all clap and fucking cheer

Hitler was much easier to kill as a baby. That’s all.

After I posted this I came across a topic that is likely filled with bots pumping it. Get in early. Look for indicators. Tag and bag them. But there’s needs to be some type of community for this. Like a scambaiters

“Famous Influencer Druski under flame for doing “Whiteface” after a video of him making fun of Erika Kirk surfaced online…”

imagine that my comment on a post about an age verification process that’s being adopted by multiple sites could exist long after reddit fails. What then?

It’s just building and gamify strategically. There’s no magic here. It works. Bots can adapt all they want. They’re still constraint and limited by technology and money.

What is magic is humans ability to use inference and deduction to see things that are not right in front of us. It’s hard to see this online especially the way some conversations go… but regardless of that, people could easily detect patterns that are used in the wild. We just need data. Lemmy communities are perfectly set up for this for now.

You all complain but in 5 years you’ll all defend it like its a gold standard

Just open it all up to everyone. Fuck it. There’s a point we all just get bored of it

Discord did the same thing didn’t they?

Also reddit heavily used bots to fill they site with posts for years. They were one of the biggest ones. Kiss my ass reddit

So, you want to hire hundreds of thousands of moderators? The human is smarter, yeah, but not the bot doing the detection.

I don’t know where this is coming from. Nobody is being hired. If anything I’m becoming more anti-mod lately. I feel like put boxes on things that suck oxygen out of the room rapidly. But that’s a different discussion.

Maybe I’m reading this wrong but to clarify I am not saying we need to build our own bot detection but I would be a nice have eventually. I am saying we should be crowd sourcing our collective anger and ADHD or Autism or whatever drives us to post bean moth lemmy slop and instead focus on collection of the worst bot infestations. There are patterns. Bots are not random enough that they can’t be identified with large crowd sourced efforts. They’re also in their infancy which means it will only get harder going forward.

You or I aren’t able to avaliable accurately tell right now. Have you ever seen the Sinclair news video? The one where every news station repeats the same dialogue. Can you or I flip on the news any day of the week and call that out, unlikely. But we can logical understand it is something that happens. It becomes obvious there is a script only when you collect the data and begin to analyze it. That is what I’m saying we need to figure out and gamify.

Name generation, text, patterns. At the start it won’t be accurate. But as more data is collected it’ll become obvious. If the bots were that good, these websites would have left their APIs open. But they closed them so we can’t collect this data. I’m the type of person when powerful people do something like that, I want to know why and work around that. It’s not a coincidence that they locked their sites up when people were given tools where anyone could collect data and feed it into AI for analysis.

Our inaction to do anything when the greatest opportunities are right in front of us but slipping away is a tragedy of this generation.

I think you’re wrong. Completely wrong. There are billions of messages but any intelligent person knows you don’t go through each one by one.

Do you ever see those guys who can look at a picture of a tree in a field and identify where it is in the world. There’s billions of trees. How do they do that with precision?

Classification.

They can train their bots on whatever they want. The human is smarter. If they tune them, you use the methods and knowledge learned and adapt. Like generating random numbers, there’s limits almost always. You don’t find them by inaction.

4chan a website full of racist, neo nazi and pedophiles were just goofing around and they do insane OSNIT research. Lemmy is fucking around with beans and moths. I don’t know. I’m just saddened by the state of things and how much better everybody else is at things I always thought the left was good at. It’s just been eye opening to see.